I think the best thing that musicians can do when they're not on stage is listen to other musicians or talk to everyone about the music they discover in others. Not only about instruments and concerts, but also about collections of records, books and auditions. Talking to a musician could always be a source of wonder, of novelty, a path to other musicians and their achievements. Communication, not demonstration, cozeria, not interview. They create indestructible bonds. That's why, for me, talking to musicians helps me to communicate better, beyond the pleasure of being with them. In February 2022 I had the pleasure of meeting Wolfgang Haffner and Simon Oslender. After the discussion with them I did not live revelations, I did not find out great secrets, I did not operate the great ideas that organize the universe, instead I reconfirmed my belief that before virtuosity lies virtue, and after the artist's work remains his human quality.

Wolfgang Haffner's experience spans decades and dozens of big names in which talent, creativity and versatility have produced albums and concerts at the highest artistic level. Perhaps Germany's best drummer, at least among his generation, with widespread success in the jazz world with Pat metheny, Randy & Michael Brecker, Al Jarreau, Chaka Khan and John Abercrombie. After listening to his records, you admire a complex musician, who goes beyond rhythm to orchestration and production. After talking to him, you meet a relaxed, honest, and humorous man. And you know how important Steve Gadd was.

Next to him, the much younger colleague Simon Oslender, seems an attentive and thoughtful epigon, until he reaches the front of the keyboards, when he becomes effervescent, in full control and happy with every moment spent through music. Both in the band and in the discussion, his interventions are inspired and with common sense. And you learn from him how important Steve Gadd was.

We meet in strange, unpredictable times, when it is harder to plan and act according to habit. What did you lose and what did you make up for during this time? What has changed in the last two years?

Wolfgang Haffner: As for me, I didn't lose anything, I had something to gain. I had more free time at a time when I was really new, I had time for sports, I managed to rest my body and mind after traveling quite a lot in the last 30 years and better. Strange as it may sound, it is very true that it was a catastrophe for all of us, for the culture, for the music scene, but I was able to live a period without concerts and roads, and now I have returned to a full program and I can enjoy concerts and everything that will follow. After discovering a lot, after traveling a lot, you need time to settle down, and I didn't have much time for that, it was hard for me to refuse various offers, challenges, and the pandemic gave me the opportunity to I focus on life.

After all these years in which you played with so many musicians, in so many bands, you chose a trio formula again. How did you choose your colleagues and repertoire this time?

W.H.: I've had a successful trio for about 4-5 years, starting with 2007, it's my favorite formula from the beginning, I like the privacy created. The "Kind of Spain", Kind of Spain, Kind of Cool, Kind of Tango series of projects followed, in which I used a quartet formula, but at the beginning of the "Kind of Spain" tour, the keyboardist could not come. and I was recommended Simon (Oslander), who is here next to me. We gave our first concert in Namibia and continued until the pianist returned from the original formula, then we finished the tour with Simon. Other projects followed in which we were together, including a concert in Bucharest in 2019 with Bill Evans, we sang on Simon's first album which has its own fabulous group and then came the pandemic. We kept in touch all the time and looked for a solution to continue making music under the given conditions. That's how I came to the desire to sing in trio some of the songs made in recent years, in the new formula, with Simon, who also brought bassist Thomas Stieger. We gave an online concert and it was successful, then we continued to play all the rest of the year, until now.

After all these years in which you played with so many musicians, in so many bands, you chose a trio formula again. How did you choose your colleagues and repertoire this time?

W.H.: I've had a successful trio for about 4-5 years, starting with 2007, it's my favorite formula from the beginning, I like the privacy created. The "Kind of Spain", Kind of Spain, Kind of Cool, Kind of Tango series of projects followed, in which I used a quartet formula, but at the beginning of the "Kind of Spain" tour, the keyboardist could not come. and I was recommended Simon (Oslander), who is here next to me. We gave our first concert in Namibia and continued until the pianist returned from the original formula, then we finished the tour with Simon. Other projects followed in which we were together, including a concert in Bucharest in 2019 with Bill Evans, we sang on Simon's first album which has its own fabulous group and then came the pandemic. We kept in touch all the time and looked for a solution to continue making music under the given conditions. That's how I came to the desire to sing in trio some of the songs made in recent years, in the new formula, with Simon, who also brought bassist Thomas Stieger. We gave an online concert and it was successful, then we continued to play all the rest of the year, until now.

After all these years in which you played with so many musicians, in so many bands, you chose a trio formula again. How did you choose your colleagues and repertoire this time?

W.H .: I've had a successful trio for about 4-5 years, starting with 2007, it's my favorite formula from the beginning, I like the privacy created. The "Kind of Spain", Kind of Spain, Kind of Cool, Kind of Tango series of projects followed, in which I used a quartet formula, but at the beginning of the "Kind of Spain" tour, the keyboardist could not come. and I was recommended Simon (Oslander), who is here next to me. We gave our first concert in Namibia and continued until the pianist returned from the original formula, then we finished the tour with Simon. Other projects followed in which we were together, including a concert in Bucharest in 2019 with Bill Evans, we sang on Simon's first album which has its own fabulous group and then came the pandemic. We kept in touch all the time and looked for a solution to continue making music under the given conditions. That's how I came to the desire to sing in trio some of the songs made in recent years, in the new formula, with Simon, who also brought bassist Thomas Stieger. We gave an online concert and it was successful, then we continued to play all the rest of the year, until now.

Is the repertoire also reflected in the recent collection of three CDs you released, "The Essentials"?

W.H.: The collection includes three of my most successful albums, I could say, "Shapes", "Round Silence" and "Heart of the Matter" which are also my favorite albums, because they represent me the best. Of course, the three albums in the "Kind of ..." collection also characterize me, but I didn't write all the songs. On the three "Essentials" I wrote and orchestrated everything, including the blowers, they are much more personal.

Let's go back to the beginning to find out what were your major influences in training as a musician.

W.H .:Life. Life shaped me as a man and as a musician. Music is life. If it weren't for the music, I probably wouldn't have life. On the other hand, as a musician, you have to have a life. If you study hard and spend your time doing just that, you can become a good instrumentalist, but not necessarily a great artist. I rely on human quality.

And you, Simon?

Simon Oslender: It's exactly the same for me. You can have a perfect technique, you can sing fast and fashionable, it doesn't matter if you don't put your soul into it, you don't involve the life experience, the emotions, in what you sing. Life with friends and family contributes to this.

Wolfgang, coming back to the rhythm, which drummers have influenced you the most over the years?

W.H.: Steve Gadd, Steve Gadd and Steve Gadd. And of course, Jack DeJohnette, "Philly" Jo Jones, Alvin Jones, Ian Paice, John Bonham, Tico Torres, not very technical but very good in style, plus Bob Siebenberg of Supertramp, a lesser-known but fantastic drummer as a the band.

And from the newer generation?

W.H.: I like Brian Blade, Bill Stewart, of course. I'm not up to date, I don't know the very young drummers, 20-30 years old, but I'm convinced that they will also go through life gaining more and more soul. A good example is Tony Royster Jr., who appeared as a miracle child, but it also matters how he is seen now, when he is over 30 years old. When you are very young, you can get a phone call and there is a reason for that, talent, energy ... But the next steps are very important, because they define you as a quality musician. You need to express more than talent when you sing.

Simon, I'm asking you about pianists.

S.O.: The first was Tom Canning from Los Angeles. I saw him on a DVD playing the organ with John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers. A few years later I found out that he was a close friend of Al Jarreau and that he had been his keyboardist for a long time. Exceptional instrumentalist, Fender Rhodes, Hammond, an acclaimed studio man in L.A. I was four or five years old when my father brought that DVD and after seeing Tom, I felt like I wanted to do this for the rest of my life.

Who among your generation did you notice?

S.O.: I liked Joel Lyssarides, an excellent musician, as well as Joey Alexander. My tendency is to listen to musicians older than me. Of course, I inform myself as much as I can about the new appearances, but I have the impression that very young musicians focus too much on technique, they want to demonstrate, which is normal, but it seems forced to me. It impresses me for a few minutes, then I put on an album with Steve Gadd and calm down. I also had the pleasure of singing with him. An album will be released in September.

What about the student, what importance do you attach to him over time? Do you study more at first and then focus on something different?

W.H.: I studied a lot in the beginning, I think so. I studied 5-6 hours a day between the ages of 12 and 18. I had two teachers. One had a special technique but no sense, and the other had no sense, instead he had technique. At first, one of them told my father to come to class with three favorite albums. One was Status Quo "Live", another was Jethro Tull - live "Bursting Out", with the famous solo of Barriemore Barlow, another great drummer and the third was Deep Purple - "Made in Japan", three albums " live ", because I always liked the energy of the concert. He listened a little to Jethro Tull, then he released a record with Jack DeJohnette, John Abercrombie, Eddie Gomez and Lester Bowie (New Directions) and I heard for the first time that specific sound of the big jazz drum, different from the rumble of the drum rock. Since then I have been exploring the world of ECM, with so many great artists like Jon Christensen and everything has changed. Steve Gadd also came into my life earlier, when I listened to Al Jarreau's album "This Time", without knowing that in 2016 I was going to be Al's drummer at his last concert in Zurich. But I studied enough, both the technical part, but especially the condition, the style of singing in different circumstances. I studied "paradiddle" for an hour, out of the 26 rudiments I used only three, and at one point I put on a record with my favorite artists and sang with them. I still do that sometimes. I sang more than I studied, basically my experience was formed through the direct practice of singing, even after recordings. And it's clear that most of them were with Steve Gadd. I have hundreds of albums with him alone, I spent a lot of time in record stores, and if I could find an album where Steve Gadd was on one track, I'd buy it. We had a special time in 1999 when we first met him, while we were both recording "Barefoot on the Beach", Michael Franks' album.

Was there a time when you decided to put the role of accompanist in the background and focus on the role of group leader?

W.H.: Yes, I remember it very clearly. I played with Klaus Doldinger, with Passport and I had ideas for songs, I wanted to contribute compositions, but Klaus told me that if I had my own songs, I would play them with my own band. That was my entry into the world of band leaders, I don't even know how to thank them. I used to sing as a "sideman", of course, but I focused more and more on what I wanted to do the most. I've given thousands of gigs over the years, I think I've learned well what it means to be a good accompanist ("Oh Yeah," Simon said), I still learn, we never stop learning, but I like it the most to lead my own group through my songs. And you can't be a good leader if you're not a good "sideman" And as a drummer you can be a good leader, because you have the exercise of rhythm control, everyone is synchronized by my arms, I'm used to holding them in my hand. If you sound good, the band sounds good.

The drum solo. How do you see it in a piece of music and how has it evolved in your perception?

W.H.: Let's put it this way: if I don't need to play a drum solo at a concert, I'm very happy. I don't avoid it, but it has to have a musical meaning, it doesn't have to be put anyway, anywhere, just because that's how it's done. Every note has to have life, meaning, otherwise I don't understand why I have to sing. I'm not interested in making a solo just to impress.

How do you see the European jazz scene in relation to the American one? What is Europe's contribution to this booming language?

W.H.: I think Europe has developed its own language over time, through extraordinary musicians. Let's remember what Jan Garbarek was already doing in the '70s. I toured with him in 1991 and he told me how his quartet with Bobo Stenson, Arild Andersen and Jon Christensen was heavily influenced by John Coltrane's quartets. Everyone admired Coltrane and tried to take the musical essence from him. I know better the albums that Garbarek later released and everything sounds unique. They were under the influence of American music, but they created their own music, derived but different. Jon Christensen even had an influence on American musicians. And he's not the only one. Europe has a different culture, and that is reflected in jazz, in music in general. I listen with admiration to European musicians singing standard American songs, but when they have something else to say in the same language, it is a sign of contribution, a reason for admiration. ECM and ACT record labels make an important contribution to the world of music.

Jazz has had the power to spread all over the world, everywhere you go you can listen to jazz, but I am just as interested in other cultures, other imprints. Even when you choose a song from the "Great American Songbook", give it its own interpretation, make it sound like you.

You sang with so many important musicians, big names, many concerts. Is there anyone else you haven't played with yet and would like to sing with?

W.H.: It's interesting that this question comes to my mind quite often. I sang with whoever I wanted. Is there anyone else? So far, the answer is no. I sang with all my "heroes". That doesn't mean we're done. I'm still a curious child, every day I want to learn more, now I play with Simon, I will have many more experiences, but there is no one on the list of those I want to sing with at the moment. It happened that I refused certain offers, with regret, because I didn't want to get on another plane without feeling that I could really contribute to something. Maybe such opportunities will arise and I will not refuse them. I wanted to play with Oscar Peterson, with Chick Corea, but they're no longer with us.

Simon, do you have such desires?

S.O.: Sometimes, yes. I sang with Steve Gadd, that was my number one dream. With Eddie Gomez, with Will Lee, which will also be on my new album "Peace of Mind", with Maceo Parker, I wanted to sing, but I don't know if it still works. Anyway, at least I didn't go down without explaining myself first. There is no such thing.

At the end of our discussion, I would like to know what your music collections contain. I think it's very important for musicians to listen more than they sing, to have their own music collection and as many listeners as possible to be able to choose for themselves, to have their own power to choose what they listen to and the desire to keep music in a shape as personalized as possible. Now you can have all the music on your phone, you can have access to any song, any artist, but it seems essential to me that people do not give up the idea of choosing and collecting music. What records do you have at home?

W.H.: Steve Gadd, of course. I have records with classical music, most of which I listen to Bach. For me, he is a strong influence, he is practically the first jazz musician. Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, not missing. Sometimes, when I want to estimate the spaces in a song, I think in terms of Pink Floyd. And I have a bunch of classic jazz albums from the Blue Note collection. It's great to have the covers in front of you.

Simon?

S.O.: Given my age, I picked up more CDs. I'm just starting to collect vinyl. Anyway, Steve Gadd is a must, Toto, I really like this band, I still have a lot of organ records, because I started to deepen the Hammond organ, so Jimmy Smith, Jimmy McGriff, Delvon Lamarr. I especially like Larry Goldings because he is a complex musician and at the same time he knows how to keep everything simple and fresh. I'm always surrounded by music.

W.H.: And we don't use Spotify!